Funny or Unfunny
Sometimes, it is clear that those whose being considered as weak will be picked on and laughed at. A cruel attempt to create a laugh directly with no innuendos. And oooh it is so fun for the laughing group. But a question remains, is it fun for the laughed-at group?
It is sometimes hard to determine if a joke is intended for what it was or already crossed the line as bullying. For an instance:
1. Jeff Dunham did a great job with his Achmed gimmick without offending any certain religion or country (Remember, Achmed was made in China despite how he looks and act), which Fluffy then confirmed when he toured Saudi Arabia and received information from his driver that Jeff Dunham is indeed the number one most famous and loved comedian in there thanks to his Achmed gimmick.
2. A comedy video about 5 worst cosplayer was frowned upon by some users on the Escapist forum due to the play words towards overweight people.
So really, it was hard to draw the line on this matter. It still basically a controversial topic to talk about.
A group that was unhinged, over-the-top, staggering in their lack of compassion merged with the needs of attention on a crowded medium will quickly escalate the ferocity of their vitriol (Cruel “criticism”). So yeah, sometimes, jokes from them can get out of control and in the worst case scenario, could hurt individuals beyond recognition.
But what if, and there’s a big fat if here, a joke that was considered funny for the laughing group due what I said above, is not well received by the individuals being laughed-at? I say it here again, the individuals being laughed-at.
So let’s take two example here by using JKT48 as our medium of individuals being laughed-at.
Indirect
Let’s say..among the members, Mawar (not a real name) is considered not too much of a beaut based on some people standard. This condition was then taken to full advantage by an opportunist to create a joke based on Mawar’s physical appearance in a closed community.
Of course, the joke was considered funny by the laughing group. Taking it as “Just for the Lulz” and those who think that it was offending as “Butthurt Fans” by them.
But, what if Mawar is actually the one being offended by the joke she didn’t know before the video recording was, say, leaked?
Mawar is a 14 years old girl with little to no experience to face a joke that, for her, was abusive. She felt bullied by people she barely knows in her life. As an idol, it is not right for her to express her frustration on her official Twitter and there’s simply her closest family members and friends she could talk to without the ability to express her frustration to public nor to confront the one who made the joke on her. She can only talk about it privately no matter how a brittle 14 years old she is. That’s it, no chance for an encounter at all which is the most important part in my own honest opinion.
My Personal Take on this case:
The damage has been done and it can’t be undone even by apologizing. Mawar could easily lost her self confidence after the saga. The feeling of inferiority compared to her friends could easily sway Mawar’s decision to stay at the group. There will always the chance where she will have this slight of thought of leaving the group at all cost due to her feeling of inferiority if it isn’t treated by a specialist.
A feeling of inferiority that I know all too well as someone who have a bullying victim as a very close friend when I’m in junior high.
Direct
Let me give you a blatant example here (Poster, the victimized idol, and the indirectly involved idol name blurred to protect their identity).
Well, it obvious here that he’s trolling just for the “lulz” and somehow, some people agree with his “good” sense of humor. What he and those who laughed failed to understand is, his trolling victim might perhaps taken it way too hard.
The feeling of neglect, the feeling of being at fault for someone straying on the wrong path just because of her, could somehow affect her psychology in either short or long term if left untreated.
My Personal Take on this case:
A joke/troll that was perhaps over the line.
His twitter account (I will not exposed his Twitter account) blatantly implied that all the criticism towards him is just a form of jealousy since the victim replied to his comment as a counter effort.
It is actually a form of defense mechanism to defend him from the main topic itself, his victim. A way too common use of logical fallacy as a defense mechanism. I’ve seen it way too much in work life to even considered myself irritated anymore.
Well then of course, the laughing party could easily branded me as someone who just “butt-hurted”, “doesn’t have a good sense of humor”, “White Knighting” or perhaps “Jealous Fans” which is actually plausible if we put ourselves in their boots and think like them:
A group of individuals that was unhinged, over-the-top, staggering in their lack of compassion and humanity with no remorse and in needs of attention on a crowded medium.
That being said, what yours? what is your take to both of the case and over the line jokes?
Hmmm.. Even someone who is just an ordinary type of guy can be depressed a bit when people laughing at him/her, imagine if you’re famous or in someplace where a lot of people know you.. How big the impact hit them depends on their own mental strength though but it definitely hurts
Just like the article said that there were some people who laughed with the joke and branded those who couldn’t as “sensitive”, i was thinking “What will you do if you’re the one being laughed at?” “How could you said that if you never experienced this kind of thing?”
Seemed that I know this case. It just happened recently, no?
To be honest, I’ve once reported that guy’s Twitter account, but I don’t know if any other people also felt as offended as I do. It could be that I’m a butt-hurt, or that the world is really amoral these days.
Jokes are meant to have all people laugh, not just the one who had the same mindset as the joker. I know that from the tone, it was meant as a sarcasm, but hell, does those “things” he mentioned are necessary as a joke? How if the victim felt offended by that? Does the joker even think that far?
If any of you find this joke as funny, then I am sorry to say this but you need to rethink your mores and values…
…I gotta stop this. My devil is getting strong.
The point is, I agree that it is unfunny, and unnecessary. And I don’t care if I’m the only one to think like that.
A joke is a joke until it hurts, and when ones get hurt they get hurt. Any arguments on why they shouldn’t get hurt are pointless and nothing but a display of irresponsibility.
So I agree that the only measure is on its effect to the object. The same joke will have different effect to different person. A single person has different tolerance to different topic. There is no way we can make a standard that can be applied to everyone equally.
So how do we know when a joke has become abusive? I am not sure if this particular word still have meaning nowadays, but I believe this one word is the answer : Empathy. Perhaps it is because Empathy, just like Feeling, are so subjective that it lost its significance. It lost its significance because to justify our words and deeds we need some standardized norms and values. So the problem is the need to justify ourselves, even when it is wrong, even when it is damaging someone else. A person with deep empathy need no such self-justification, they realize their limits and they hold responsible for their own limits.
I am not saying that I am perfect in Empathy, but you never and will never see or hear me laughed at jokes like ‘flat-chested girls’ ‘not-too-beauty-girls’ or making fun of graduation. I don’t need to be a girl or a member to feel how it feel.
If you feel irritated for all those joke, perhaps it is a good sign that you still have Feeling and Empathy. Your soul mate, spouse and children will be more grateful to weave their fate with you than with those who don’t. I can only hope those idols know which one to appreciate and cherish, for their own happiness.
As an adult man, it is not proper to address physically-related joke to teenage girls, since we cannot control damage that might be occurred. Let’s forgive him, but not forgot his action, since he had begged the girls’s pardon anyway and he realized that he was wrong. Case closed.
About open statement oshihen, I think this is the time for us to make oshihen as a private matter like sexual orientation or religion and beliefs. Oshihen is a right for every fans, AS LONG AS fans can be responsible for their choice.
I’m sorry for throwing this lil bit sarcasm in Indonesian, “jangan dikit-dikit oshihen. Entar kambing dibedakkin juga oshihen…”
Hmm, can you give me this Kemal’s address? I will show him what butthurt really feels like. Literally.
First of all, any joke that attack physicial appearances of someone is distasteful.
Second, the joke’s object is an underage girl who is bound by rules so she can’t give attack the clown freely in social media.
It’s really an unbalance situation.
Well, seems the girl can’t protect herself in this situation, then her management should do something about this.
Let’s see if JOT will have anything to say about this matter. I’m sure the issue is taken to management level by now.
well… i hope so..it’s a very rude joke.
well..,good stuff about the unfunny comedian..
what happened?? what case? >.<
i just hear and googling about this last night..it’s about rude joke from one of standup comedian.
Let me play a little bit devil’s advocate.
Look at Ricky Gervais, american standup comedian. His materials? Obese people, People with cancer. yet no big deal.
Look, when something similar is pointed to Justin Bieber, for example, I can guarantee most people disagreeing to this ‘joke’ by a certain comedian will laugh.
We’re playing double standards here, folks.
But personally, the points that I pointed right there becomes invalid because it made a mental breakdown.
Playing the devil’s advocate again, look at those against Scientologists. They LITERALLY trying to make everyone against them suffer (See Scientology’s Fair Game article at oom Wiki), those who make a joke about them (see Scientologist’s response to the South Park episode). They are quite literally insulted by the episode, but people called it a joke instead an insult.
But perhaps the whole problem comes from the difference of cultures. Americans are generally more open to these stuffs, unlike Indonesians.
Like what? Cih, thesis become antithesis.
Yeah, I know right. We should be like Americans. All of us.
*grabs popcorn*
Hahaha, yeah lets toss a beer “dude”. Because being Indonesian is a “PROBLEM”
I personally don’t think it was all about culture. Take a look at the Escapist forum case of overweight jokes. So there’s really no fine line in this case. The only way we can say it was offensive or not is only by basing ourselves on how the jokes impacted the object. We can only know once the damage had been done, although of course, there’s a way to avoid that, through moderation, or as KageTora said: Empathy.
For the example of Scientology, well, perhaps it was because they are not basing themselves as an individual. The joke attack the whole ideas of it. Thus, people -in general- doesn’t think of it as picking on the weak. But then again, the whole idea of crossing the line is a very blurred line.
But I think the one single argument to beat my devil’s advocate is this : AGE OF THE MATERIAL. She’s still 14 YEARS OLD. Kemal should have thought of that while making his material. If Mawar is 23 or 25 years old instead, then go ahead. Use it on the stage. Yet, Mawar is only 14. Kemal did not remember how someone in that age will react to the joke.
I’d prefer British jokes instead of the American jokes, since I can laugh hard at Top Gear and Mr. Bean’s jokes instead of some American sitcoms and Stand Up Comedies The jokes from the States are too vulgar for my taste.
Leaving that behind, I guess being Indonesian has nothing to do with “accepting such jokes”. Perhaps it was all actually just a matter of personal taste and presentation. After all, it’s a Stand Up Comedy, and I think for such materials to be brought by a comic on stage are not that strange anymore. It’s all left on how the comic bring it up to the audience, and how the audience responded to the joke.
For me, I find that it is quite over the limit, no matter how the general public sees it.
hmmm , time to flood indonesia again
Since I haven’t watched the video on Youtube, I honestly can’t give any good comment on this. But, maybe if I want to put myself in “Mawar” shoes, I would cry for a while and tell myself that even some stranger can make a joke about me, and recall how I’ve always been sensitive with jokes mentioning about parts of mine. Really. But after that, well, I’d come into my senses and realize that they’re jokes, and it’s pointless to fuss about them especially which come from stanger. It’ll be different if they come from close people or friends, but stranger, nope, I’m not going to let myself be bothered by that. Even if I was still 14 or now when I’m 22, I have more things to bother than something like fussing over some comedian who made jokes about me. But after all, if it WERE me. Certainly, it’s not, and of course I’d be a hypocrite if I said Mawar shouldn’t have to be offended by that. Either it’s a pretense, or just playing cold shoulder.
As for fans’ reactions towards this Kemal case, I think it’d be much wiser if you can just ignore it. Will Kemal honestly, and genuinely feel bad for his action? I don’t want to have any negative thinking, but there are too much similar examples of what standup comedians such as him had done. Let it just be a thing to learn that between joke and insult are only separated by very thin, transparent line.
Those are dirty jokes. I don’t think making dirty jokes about ‘bathroom’ to a 14 years old girl is appropriate.
It’s not funny and I believe it’s illegal. Some people may even call it sexual harassment.
Regardless any culture, I think that adult making ‘dirty jokes’ about underage girl/boy is disgusting.